tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post2030690651633290886..comments2024-01-31T07:54:13.816-08:00Comments on Diamonds in the Sky with Lucy: pondering truth...part 1Kayce aka lucyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01479940262271959482noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-35610961785339860922009-03-24T10:04:00.000-07:002009-03-24T10:04:00.000-07:00SS--so glad your "lame-brain" subsided so you coul...SS--so glad your "lame-brain" subsided so you could comment here. i love watching the process you go through as you begin to write (at least i think i see that happening...since that is often what happens for me :-)<BR/><BR/>wonderful wonderful thoughts!! thank you so much for coming back to share!! xoxoxoKayce aka lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479940262271959482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-49111395686490482482009-03-24T10:01:00.000-07:002009-03-24T10:01:00.000-07:00tess--i knew this was the place to have this conve...tess--i knew this was the place to have this conversation especially since you live half way around the world! i am thrilled to introduce you to the "thurman" quote. it is one of my absolute favorites and in many ways was a catalyst for this particular journey that began about five years ago.<BR/><BR/>there is wonderful humility and truth in what you speak...and you are quite clever too! (the onion analogy is a great one AND i don't think we ever really get to the center...AND we DO get there for fleeting moments). complicated stuff!<BR/><BR/>CP--you have offered so many wonderful observations here such as distinguishing between truth and fact. i love your thoughts about pilate and how he might have meant those words. i also found myself wondering about your words "hang in there." do i sound desperate...like i am trying to hang on (because that is not how i feel at all)? just curious.<BR/><BR/>and i have been reading your posts (although i'm not exactly sure what health care has to do with this particular topic, but i could probably find a connection if pressed ;-) your post on "self" and its comments were part of this conversation development.<BR/><BR/>i'd still love to know your thoughts on why we might be called "human beings" rather than "human doings."Kayce aka lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479940262271959482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-82887330353527889932009-03-24T09:46:00.000-07:002009-03-24T09:46:00.000-07:00barbara--i adore your "shamelessness" here! "When...barbara--i adore your "shamelessness" here! "When we live in consonance with our deepest yearnings, our hearts and minds are undivided. That is, for me, living in the Truth." i so appreciate you bringing in the word "consonance". funny how the term resonates so deeply with me, yet i often look at things in terms of "where is the dissonance."<BR/><BR/>tinkerbell--i am delighted you have shown up for this conversation. you have much to offer. "just have have faith" rings the same warning bells to me as "all you have to do is believe." and no, i do not think that means going "blindly and ignorantly." i know (for me) it has been in the searching, questioning and pondering that i have stepped closer to the resonating peace that makes up this complicated and simple thing called truth that "defies human description."Kayce aka lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479940262271959482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-7034471507239527882009-03-23T22:29:00.000-07:002009-03-23T22:29:00.000-07:00thank you for the fabulous responses. i will repl...thank you for the fabulous responses. i will reply in more detail soon. in the meantime, please take a peak at part 2 :-)<BR/><BR/>the conversation is wonderful! peace.Kayce aka lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479940262271959482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-26412189586151063962009-03-23T20:20:00.000-07:002009-03-23T20:20:00.000-07:00Heavy duty post and since you're not allowing the ...Heavy duty post and since you're not allowing the "lame brained" excuse - I'll give it a little go......truth for me is not about black and white, although I do like rules to follow and believe in rules. But the truth for an individual is formed by their whole life experience , what they've been taught, what they've experienced - each person's measurement of truth could be a little different but enough alike to their both agreeing they are human and exercising their will to establish and live by what they consider truth. (I suppose there are those who live by deceit but if they know they were living by deceit rather than the truth (like Bernard Madoff - ponzi-scheme man) then they would still be knowing the truth....about the deceit, I mean.) Light for me is all about spirituality, and my spirituality is all about God. I think all light and enlightenment comes through and from our relationship to God - if that relationship is there we may not always see the light but the opportunity for seeing it is present. <BR/><BR/>God's work - oh my, God has so much work to do that by the grace of God we actually do some of it! Feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, praying and visiting the sick, driving our neighbor to an appointment, checking the dogtags on a loose puppy in our neighborhood, adding extra cash in the offering plate even if we can't deduct it on our taxes, contributing more than once and then again when asked to by a worthwhile community resource......authenticity - if we can do some or lots of God's work and do it without caring who knows we do it, perhaps we are living an authentic life, waging an authentic battle against doubt and evil....other thoughts - oh, yes your questions are provocative!<BR/><BR/>XOXODianna Woolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901349180265745138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-31734484505768107552009-03-23T11:52:00.000-07:002009-03-23T11:52:00.000-07:00Great Questions. Hang in there. Philosophers and...Great Questions. Hang in there. Philosophers and theologians are in the business of exploring the meaning of truth, and you have joined them. Or, to be more accurate, they engage in the search for the meaning of truth discovering bits and pieces of it along the way. I suppose that one place to start is to separate the idea of truth from fact. A fact is a verifiable, repeatable event that can be described, measured (in some sense) and relied upon to behave tomorrow as it behaved today. The big problems with facts is that they are always provisional, but for our purposes we can feel comfortable relying on them in ordinary ways.<BR/>Facts are one element of truth, but truth has to do with meaning itself. Is there a core meaning to life, for instance, that encompasses the all and everything of life's potential. We can read Pilate's question "What is truth?" in one of two equally valid ways. He could have said it sarcastically, as one whose political life has convinced him that there is no truth, only that which is expedient. Or, he would have said it sincerely as a real and troubled question. We all use Pilate's words in both ways. As a Christian priest, I offer the option that scripture reveals elements of truth, and most especially through the New Commandment, the Great Commandments, and the Sermon on the Mount - about which I can write more than you want to read. More later if you want, and you might want to take a look at a couple of my recent posts.<BR/>CPCountry Parsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02727241474360657192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-80263176437393982332009-03-23T03:12:00.000-07:002009-03-23T03:12:00.000-07:00Firstly, thank you so much for the quote by Howard...Firstly, thank you so much for the quote by Howard Thurman (who I hadn't heard of but have now googled.) <BR/><BR/>And I think there's a deep connection between what he says - the world needs people who have come alive - and this whole question about being willing to look into the darkness and emptiness inside. Unless we can do this, we cannot truly come alive. <BR/><BR/>Which is why so many church communities (especially, no wish to offend, the charismatics) seem to me like the Stepford Wives of the faith world.<BR/><BR/>What worries me slightly about defining truth is how do we know? How do we know when we've gone deeply enough, might we still be deluding ourselves with what seems like truth.<BR/><BR/>I think perhaps there are layers of truth, like an onion, and each one seems true at the time - pungent and makes us cry but tastes delicious when cooked - until we get to the space at the centre, which is where real truth lives.<BR/><BR/>And even as I write that, I'm aware of a lack of truth, of attempting to write a 'clever' comment with the onion analogy...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-6590292460372224662009-03-23T01:56:00.000-07:002009-03-23T01:56:00.000-07:00I was borne of a devoutly Catholic mother. I found...I was borne of a devoutly Catholic mother. I found, as I grew up and went to church every Sunday, that none of those people seemed to want to look into the dark, mysterious core you spoke of. <BR/><BR/>I always got told, just have faith. No one made an effort to explain, or interpret ... it was the same old party line. Its almost like they're afraid to explore, or really make sense of things, because of what they might find. <BR/><BR/>Having faith doesn't mean following blindly and ignorantly, does it? I don't think it does.<BR/><BR/>As for truth, I'm inclined to think its the process ... or maybe that light that guides us. Its so divine or sacred it almost defies human description.roxanne s. sukhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16424834424208118694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-29936527357000487712009-03-22T19:58:00.000-07:002009-03-22T19:58:00.000-07:00Let me take a stab in the dark (pun intended -- I'...Let me take a stab in the dark (pun intended -- I'm shameless!). Truth is somehow consonance with Reality -- capital R reality, the Ground of our being. I don't think Truth is something we can grasp or encapsulate or put into a fancy box with a lock upon it. I like what Hmmbrd wrote: Truth IS. When we live in consonance with our deepest yearnings, our hearts and minds are undivided. That is, for me, living in the Truth. I believe God is in there (somewhere). <BR/>I also believe God is very, very simple. But that doesn't equate with comprehensible. Ultimately, I believe we mortals are better with complexity than with simplicity.Barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17078914306329037697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-34681917250485033712009-03-22T18:33:00.000-07:002009-03-22T18:33:00.000-07:00hmmbrd--you make me smile in a very good way! the...hmmbrd--you make me smile in a very good way! the ongoing search...yep. there are some things i can wrap my mind around, but it gets really hard to try and explain them. you have done a very nice job here!!!<BR/><BR/>SS--you can beg off for now, but i may not print part 2 until i hear more from your un-lame brain :-) hope the printing was fabulous!Kayce aka lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01479940262271959482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-22166577317575135572009-03-22T17:59:00.000-07:002009-03-22T17:59:00.000-07:00This is a heavy duty post and begging off with a l...This is a heavy duty post and begging off with a lame brain after "printing" all weekend is going to be my response for the moment.....I'm eager to see part II as well.<BR/><BR/>xoxoDianna Woolleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901349180265745138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15693384.post-48624398918656333982009-03-22T17:45:00.000-07:002009-03-22T17:45:00.000-07:00big stuff! I was struck by your musings on the si...big stuff! I was struck by your musings on the simplicity tendency. I think there is a simple, everyone-can-grasp-this part, but there is nothing simple about us and certainly not God.I think the boiling things down to black and white, them or us etc is a thing we all fight against (or not). I agree this is so universal and so HUGE... The God we ponder is HUGE. the fear we have around this is HUGE. I would imagine that is why we grasp onto what feels manageable and also what a number of people can agree upon. then we just say 'okay that is enough'. we plug our ears and say "lalalalalala" to avoid having to deal with more. <BR/>All this to say, i think truth IS and our search is ongoing.hmmbrdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13593714692710958772noreply@blogger.com